r32
New Drifter
Posts: 16
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Post by r32 on Nov 10, 2006 12:57:02 GMT 7
I noticed that most if not all drifting rc cars are 4WD. Has anyone tried a RWD car of any sort?
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Post by J on Nov 11, 2006 0:14:51 GMT 7
it has been tried b4, it doesn't work, or at least no one here has succeeded in making it work. ( though there is a video on you-tube supposedly someone managed to get a rwd rc to drift. )
i dunno why most people can't get it to work on rwd. maybe cos there are significant differences between real life rwd car and rc rwd cars. from reports of sgdrifters, most attempts to drift rwd have the car spinning around the front wheels. u could go try out rwd and see if it can drift though. if u get results please do post them here it should be interesting. though i think it might be a waste of money if u buy a rwd car just to try and it doesn't work. alternatively, u can diy a rw car by removing the shaft from a 4wd car. tts how some people here tried out rwd drifting.
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Post by *team trixie™ | X on Nov 11, 2006 9:19:16 GMT 7
hmm.. interesting idea.
but i think it all boils down to ur idea of drifting. different ppl inevitably have different opinions. you may be able to drift with a RWD as evidenced by that video, its not easy but i wun say that AWD drifting is easy either. rather, its because RWD drifting is more of a rally or race type of drift, where u handbrake drift sharp corners but travel straight on straights.
but, for most of us here, we are not really interested in such drifting. we want to lose traction all the way.
put simply, we want four wheels to be losing traction when we are drifting, but with RWD only ur rear tyres are sliding while ur front grips the ground. this is because ur rear is losing much more traction then ur front due to the power coming from the rear.
what is interesting is how come things are so different from real life. i am guessing its the way the differentials work in real AWD cars plus the fact that for real RWDs its easy to lose traction on 4 wheels but there is still enough grip to allow you to pull yourself out of the drift. ;D
but that is just my opinion. anyone has any other ideas?
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Post by iphong on Nov 11, 2006 12:25:00 GMT 7
Weight --- ?? 1/5 scale cars might pull nice drifts with RWD.
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r32
New Drifter
Posts: 16
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Post by r32 on Nov 11, 2006 13:58:29 GMT 7
But well the thing is that full scale D1 drifters are invariably rear wheel drive and mostly front engined too, for that desired FR layout. Their objective is same as yours - to get the car to slide from one corner to the next without regaining grip. Lots of coverage of the judging criteria on cable TV if you have AXN.  The reason why pulling out the front driveshafts might not immediately work might be due to the suspension having been set up for a 4WD car. The kind of r/c drifting with 4WD is more similar in real life to rallycross or rally racing. My understanding of drifting is to hold the car at the knife edge of losing traction. It is more difficult with a rear wheel drive because you only got wheels at the back to push, whereas on a 4WD you have the front wheels coming along to pull the car in concert with the pushing rear wheels. I would think that throttle control is very important in a RWD. I'm in the middle of setting up a TA03F for just that purpose - front motor with rear drive. I've taken out the front diff to cut down on drivetrain drag and weight as well. I intend to spend some time figuring out the suspension setup. I've tried this in the past but tires have let me down. With the current trend of PVC or super-hard tire rings, I'm going to give it another go. Maybe the car will be more balanced now. Should be ready to try out once I get some tires and batteries. |
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r32
New Drifter
Posts: 16
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Post by r32 on Nov 11, 2006 14:07:23 GMT 7
Oh in the past I have actually tried to replicate a FR drivetrain by installing a one way bearing in the front end of the car. But I installed it in reverse. The net effect is that when the car is accelerating, only the rear wheels receive power, because the front one way is declutched. However once the car is on the move, any application of brake would result in all four wheels braking.
In a pure RWD RC car, the rear wheels get power, and only the rear wheels get the braking as well, which can be quite drastic (akin to pulling the handbrake).
On a 4WD RC car, all four wheels get power, all four wheels get braking force.
On a 4WD RC car with a front one way installed the correct way, all four wheels get power but only the rear wheels get brakes. Handbrake effect again.
Its still all theory, but short tests have not been conclusive. Maybe its all a waste of time, and 4WD is still the way to go.
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Post by J on Nov 11, 2006 15:09:06 GMT 7
The reason why pulling out the front driveshafts might not immediately work might be due to the suspension having been set up for a 4WD car. The kind of r/c drifting with 4WD is more similar in real life to rallycross or rally racing. My understand of drifting is to hold the car at the knife edge of losing traction. It is more difficult with a rear wheel drive because you only got wheels at the back to push, whereas on a 4WD you have the front wheels coming along to pull the car in concert with the pushing rear wheels. I would think that throttle control is very important in a RWD. Should be ready to try out once I get some tires and batteries. to be fair i would say that our 4wd style drifting of rc cars is totally different from what happens if one tries to drift a 4wd car in real life, just as RWD RC performs totally different from RWD real car. check out the sgdrifter videos, and u'll see that our drifts are not rally car drifts. as for the positioning of the motor in rc cars, it doesn't make a difference whether ur motor is front or rear, since the weight of a 540J motor is hardly the main weight of the car. as long as it's rear wheel drive, the effect should be consistent, the weight of the batteries might be a bigger factor to consider. i think one of the most critical functions that is being missed out here is that for a real car, the brakes apply pressure independently of the engine, so ur motor may be revving high, but the brakes are preventing the tyres from moving that fast. on rc cars, the braking is purely a reduction of power. does a real life RWD car have brakes applying on all wheels or only on front wheels or back? becos i was theorising that if rwd cars have brakes applying only to the front tyres, the rear pushing with the front tyres moving less is wat enables the car to overcome the grip of the normal tyres ( which are supposed to grip, so its entirely different from PVC yet again which are supposed to lose traction easily ) i like ur idea of putting a reversed front one way.. at any rate, let us know how the great experiment turns out. |
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Post by *team trixie™ | X on Nov 11, 2006 16:38:03 GMT 7
real life RWD
brake on all 4 wheels if footbrake
2 wheels if handbrake
j, you too long never go for driving lessons forgot all ur basic theory le. ;D
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Max
New Drifter
Posts: 49
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Post by Max on Nov 11, 2006 16:40:25 GMT 7
in a real RWD car the brakes are on all 4 wheels but the main stopping power is from the front coz the weight is shifted there. this weight shifting also reduces traction in the rear making is easier to slide out thats why pro drifters use braking drift
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Post by J on Nov 11, 2006 17:23:38 GMT 7
lol.. sorrie i blur liao.. lol.. been studying whole day. forgot all bout driving theory lessons and real car technology.
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Post by Touge Artist©® on Nov 14, 2006 19:45:50 GMT 7
Heh . Guess What I tried RWD drifting with my mini RC car by tapin the wheels and kinda drifts ok . Just that you need to know the steering and stuff . I'll put up the video soon . Its a 1/28 scale Subaru WRX From Nikko . No Suspensions lol . Its a cheapo Car .  Toodles . |
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Post by sidewaysdriver6 on Nov 15, 2006 9:28:21 GMT 7
Heh . Guess What I tried RWD drifting with my mini RC car by tapin the wheels and kinda drifts ok . Just that you need to know the steering and stuff . I'll put up the video soon . Its a 1/28 scale Subaru WRX From Nikko . No Suspensions lol . Its a cheapo Car . Toodles . i think you mean 1/32 scale right? cause i have one of those nikko cars. 1/28 is more mini-z scale, i have one of those too the small cars are pretty fun to run in the house. interesting finding (post the vid soon?), but are you able to control the drift? cuz if the floor is smooth and the tyres are smooth it's not difficult to get it to drift (just turn, throttle, release and let it slide), but the issue i think is more a matter how well it can be controlled, whether the drift can be managed. i think a good test would be to try to do a tight donut or a figure 8, without the 2wd spinning out. just a thought. |
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Post by iphong on Nov 16, 2006 12:33:55 GMT 7
youtube.com/watch?v=AFfgQV_6zn4Check this video out. First few clips they drifted with those 1/5 scale cars. They are mostly using FG cars and FG car is mostly RWD, i don't know if they produced AWD before but as far as I know, they are all RWD. You can see they get these things drift so close to the real car. They don't sell these car in US, but I will get the baja soon, and see how good it drifts on sand and dirt. 1/5 scale cars are amazing just like the real thing.
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Post by Gucking Fenius on Nov 16, 2006 16:57:12 GMT 7
OOOoooh...cool video! on circuit track some more! Anyway, I don't really think that's a drift...I've done this with rubber tyres and a really fast motor, when you enter a turn that fast, you're bound to have some kind of a powerslide going on... And they don't really sustain the the "drift" also... Just my opinion ah.. But man, THOSE CARS ARE AWESOME! |
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Post by sidewaysdriver6 on Nov 16, 2006 18:54:28 GMT 7
... though i agree with f360 in that they don't really sustain the drift... but d@#n fast...
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Post by iphong on Nov 17, 2006 5:45:17 GMT 7
Those 1/5 scale car action is so close to the full scale cars. In real life drifting, if you want tight drifts, you need front brakes and if you want to pull long drifts, you need high speed and high engine RMP (torque). So it's the same thing in this scale. and you can only do that kind of slides with RWD, it will not or maybe will rarely happen with 4WD. Remember, in this scale cars, there is brake disks and calipers like a real cars so they can simulate full brake and hand brake, so it make the driving experience so much like the real car.
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Post by monohawa on Nov 30, 2006 7:30:39 GMT 7
Sorry for my english..first Triyng to make drift whit a RWD. Well..some body has tried to put in FRONT TIRES PVC and REAR TIRES NORMAL TIRES rubber or foam?? pvc---pvc....Front rub---rub...Rear..or foam?(neopreno..o espuma..) Somebody can try to change CAMBER in FRONT wheels and CONVER..?? /------\...Front...Sorry less.... agresive angle..  Un saludo desde España.. U are the top of RC drift..sgdrifters..thaks soo much for urs videos ..I tried...the FWD..drifting....umhh. no good..for the moment. I dont tried whit REAR in PVC...and FRONT in RUB... Take a 4wd..put in FWD..and Put your Battery ..in the BUMPER whit a cable more long and a nylon clip to fix. Thanks for the videos. |
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Post by monohawa on Nov 30, 2006 7:45:06 GMT 7
REASON??..simple ..see the videos of drifting real escale 1:1. when you put gas the RWD..goes turn left and right and drfit ..but if you dont put gas..THE REAR tires ..doing ..like a brake..but ..its tru whit FRONT tires in PVC..MORE SOFT FRONT AMORT?.i dont know..  Put front TIRES in Foam..sorry i dont know the name in english.. the tires are use by 1/8 GAS.. (neopreno ..o espuma) thanks..for read. |
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Post by DainBramage on Nov 30, 2006 14:35:40 GMT 7
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Post by iphong on Dec 1, 2006 10:35:19 GMT 7
Truely, a heavy rc car with gas engine should perform very nice drift with regular rubber tires.
Just got myself a HPI baja, this thing is awesome, did some drifting on sand, turned out good, but when I did it on alphalt surface, i experienced front wheel lifting problem => therefore there is not enough front grip in front to control the car and it kept spinning, I hope HPI will come out with a rear swaybar and extra hard springs so i can drift these thing onroad.
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